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Ranma's sick :(


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#1 Clara5

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 08:25 AM

Hey everyone,

As I am writing this, my Ranma is sick. :( He's been acting a bit weird these past days so I decided to watch him more carefully.

Here is what I found:
- He is missing his left pectoral fin, and his right is very inflamed and started disintegrating since I noticed something was wrong three days ago.
- His ventrals also look inflamed and are looking like they have also started coming apart.
- His other fins are looking fine, no signs of irritation or infection that are apparent.
- He is usually a very vibrant royal blue, but his color has been dulling.
- He sinks to the bottom or floats on top occasionnally.
- He has what looks to be a red sore on his "chin", and I noticed before changing tanks that it looked like something white was coming out of it.
- He is breating a bit harder than usual and from the few pictures I took, it looks like his gills may be inflamed as well.

I changed him out of his tank (unheated and uncycled) to another one, in which I put a heater and a tiny sponge filter. I had put salt in both the old and new tanks in the hope that would help his healing, but hasn't shown any improvements and has actually gotten worse.
Before I took him out, I tested his water for pH, Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, GH and KH (I have liquid drop tests) and nothing seemed to be out of alignment (he was in a 2 gal. tank, I put him in an identical tank that I hadn't filled yet). Nitrates and Nitrites were at the lowest possible level, and ammonia was also, it barely registered any yellow (under 0.6ppm, and I think it was only because the water was slightly yellowish to begin with), GH was at 160, moderately hard (8 drops) and KH was at 220, very hard (11 drops).

He still eats just fine, has lots of appetite, but he's but a bit more listless than he usually is, and his missing pectoral is giving him a hard time moving around his tank. It looks like he may have caught whatever Mrs. Mom had got and had to be euthanaised for. I don't have all the necessary medication/antibiotics, but if you can recommend anything, I'll be more than glad to purchase whatever I need so he can heal, he's only about 1 1/2 years old yet, I don't want to lose him!

I hope you guys can help me with this!!!

Have a good day,

Clara5

P.S. I'm posting this right away so you can start suggesting some medications and/or treatments right away, but pictures will come a bit later today once I get them out of my camera.

#2 Stars

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 02:11 PM

Its very hard to say because I don't know what 'inflamed' (does it look reddish, flaky, rotting?) actually look like, you will need pictures for any actual good advice.

I'm also a little confused, was he in a 2 gallon unheated and uncycled tank?

If you have a heater, I'm not sure why you didn't use it? Bettas should be kept at a min. of 76F but they strive around 80F. Even if you live in a hot place, its better to house him a stable a little extra warm water than to house him without a heater that can create a flux. in temperature.

For now, your best bet is probably 1/2 tsp per gallon of aquarium salt, crank the heat to 82F and keep the tank dark as possible. Try you best to take a picture of his fins/red sores.

~ hopefully he will feel better soon

#3 Clara5

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:55 PM

Its very hard to say because I don't know what 'inflamed' (does it look reddish, flaky, rotting?) actually look like, you will need pictures for any actual good advice.

I'm also a little confused, was he in a 2 gallon unheated and uncycled tank?

If you have a heater, I'm not sure why you didn't use it? Bettas should be kept at a min. of 76F but they strive around 80F. Even if you live in a hot place, its better to house him a stable a little extra warm water than to house him without a heater that can create a flux. in temperature.


Hello Stars,

By inflamed, I mean it looked blood red. It has now almost completely disappeared as well, a sign he isn't getting better... And pictures are coming as soon as I have time to sit down at my computer and edit them (resize and crop).

Yes, he was in an unheated uncycled tank, he now is in a heated tank of the exact same size.

The reason why I didn't use a heater was because I didn't have one before (I only got them last friday)... Now is tank is being kept warm at approx. 28C (82F). There is a tiny sponge filter but I'll keep on treating the tank as an uncycled tank. So as not to stress him too much, how often should I be changing his water?

I'll try to upload the pictures quickly so you or someone else here can help me diagnose him ASAP.

Thank you and have a nice day,

Clara5

#4 marko

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:41 PM

bacterial fin rot?
if his fin has receded all the way to the body, his odds are very very low. treat with aquarium salt, and broad spectrum antibiotics; or euthanize.

the tank is still uncycled. adding a new sponge filter does not cycle a tank. the bacteria still have to colonize, and that takes a few weeks.

#5 Clara5

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 03:10 PM

adding a new sponge filter does not cycle a tank. the bacteria still have to colonize, and that takes a few weeks.



That I know, I just meant to say that I was not going to let the tank cycle :P

As for a "broad spectrum antibiotic" what do you mean by that? I mean, what kind of product, or active ingredient would I be looking at here?

Thanks,

Clara

#6 marko

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 03:42 PM

there are many many opinions on which antibiotics work and to what extent.
i use either sulfa drugs or kanamycin. i use: http://www.bigalspet...naplex-5-g.html

#7 Stars

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 04:42 PM

Now, before we jump the gun with medication, lets make sure we are treating him for the right thing.

Switching medication can be stressful on a fish's body to re-adjust, for a sick fish, its extra hard.

Try doing a 25-50% every other day, try not to scoop him out if its possible.
I find that a sick fish is extra effy when scooped out with a net, placed in a cup and than placed back in the tank. But, do add a full 100% after a while.

He might have Septicemia, a bacteria blood infection usually from an open wound. What of the red sores? Are they small pools of bloody scale or actually sores?

does his fins look similar to these? As in bloody-ish?

Posted Image

I still need a picture for positive id so I wouldn't bet my money on anything yet.

Edited by Stars, 03 April 2012 - 04:43 PM.


#8 Clara5

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:44 PM

Hello everyone,

Ranma's seemed to have stabilized, he still eats plenty, but he doesn't seem to breathe as hard, though his fins still looked clamped. However, I checked them throuroughly and there doesn't seem to be any bloody areas anymore like the ones in Stars's picture.

And, I finally have the pictures!!!

Here they are, remember though these were taken two days ago, I'm posting those so you can see the sore and the bloody fin (which is not visible enough anymore) better:

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

I also took one from overhead to make sure his scales weren't raised or anything, at it seems they aren't.
Posted Image

This is the sore I was talking about (I added arrows pointing to it:
Posted ImagePosted Image

I really hope you can help me with this! I really don't want to lose him, he's only 1 1/2 years old!

Have a good day,

Clara5

#9 Stars

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:58 PM

Can you grab a flashlight and shine it on him to check for a sheen of fine good specks? From the last couple of photos, it looks like he has a combination of Velvet and Septicemia. I can't say for sure he has Velvet because it could just be the flash of the camera reflecting his iridescence. Check the pectoral, face and ventral fin, its the easiest to see there but I leaning towards he has both. Velvet causes skin to peel off in advanced stages of infection which is what it looks in photo 4 and what the 'sores' might be from. Does he appear to scratch at all?

Here is what velvet looks like:

Posted Image

However, it does appear he do have septicemia. I see several red streaks and there are small hemorrhaging over his face and body, a symptom of Septicemia. There isn't any other disease I can think of that causes this. He might be fighting off a little better since has warmer water, temperature also boosts immunity.

Even though he is improving, I would go ahead and start him on anti-bacterial medication. I am going to recommend Erythromycin by API because its combinable. I am not 100% certain if you fish has velvet, if he do, you might have combine anti-parasite and anti-bacteria since both Septicemia and Velvet are very fast acting.

API's Erythromycin can be safely combined with API's General Cure and has been stated by the manufacturer. I haven't combined Erythromycin with General Cure in particular but it combined with API's super ick clear when I treated for a case of popeye/finrot + ich. Parasites are notorious for causing bacterial infections.

Check for the gold specks, if you see them than I would try to find Erythromycin and General Cure at Petco/Petsmart, they are pricey but both are good medication with good reviews. You can also use them for future bacteria and parasite infections of all sorts. I generally advise against looking for cheaper alternatives, whats usually ends up happening is people buy lots of different cheap medication that don't work but in the end cost them more.

If you can't find them, try posting on the Wanted Section of the forum, someone may have extras and send it to you for cheap.

~ Good luck!

#10 Clara5

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:59 AM

Can you grab a flashlight and shine it on him to check for a sheen of fine good specks? Does he appear to scratch at all?

Check for the gold specks, if you see them than I would try to find Erythromycin and General Cure at Petco/Petsmart, they are pricey but both are good medication with good reviews. You can also use them for future bacteria and parasite infections of all sorts.


Thanks you SOOOO much Stars (and marko too, of course)!!! Hopefully it'll help Ramna pull out of this ok :)

I did get a flashlight and checked Ranma's body, concentrating on the head, but it really does not look like he has velvet. I've had a few fish die from velvet about a year ago and have come to be able to recognise the way it looks, but there wasn't anything 100% percent conclusive that would suggest he had velvet from what I saw. He also does not scratch at all so far as I can see, and he acts nothing like the other fish I had that got it, either.

So I'm thinking he got something else instead, even though I have no idea what it was. What I believe it may be is that whatever Mrs. Mom had, he caught it when I stupidly re-used an anubia plant in his larger tank (the first 2 gal I put him in) and cross-contamined him with it. Let's just say that I will NOT be using that plant again! AND I will be disinfecting that tank with bleach as well, just to be on the safe side... Can I re-use the gravel in that tank (after bleaching) or should I just throw it away? It's all-natural stones that are a bit polished.

I bought Erythromycin from the petstore yesterday and started treatment last night. They didn't have General Cure, but if I need it, I happened to have some in stock from last year because of my velvet outbreak (which I was too slow to act upon and none of the fish (3) that caught it made it alive) and the medication only expires in May 2013, so if I ever need it again, I'll be all right. :) It's good to know that those medications ARE combinable so if I ever need to use them together, I can do it safely :)

Also, Ranma's still eating like a pig, and he seems a bit calmer now that I put a dark cloth on his tank. Also, I am "happy" to say that his right pectoral has not completely disappeared (though there is barely more than a stub left :/ ), and is not bloody anymore, possible signs of improvement. He stays around the top a lot, not sure what it means but then again, it may just be better so he can get to air more easily. I've noticed that even if none of his fins are bloody anymore, there seems to be a small chunk (about 2mm wide) of his anal fin gone, with a black edge. I'm guessing that's "standard" fin rot, and considering his condition, it wouldn't be surprising, but then again since I'm treating him with Erythromycin, that condition is being adressed as well. Still hoping he can get back on track and get better!!!

Thanks for all your help, I wouldn't have been able to make it this far without you!!!

Have a great day,

Clara5

#11 marko

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:44 AM

i agree with stars about starting antibiotic treatment. however, i dont like erythromycin that much, but that just comes down to personal experiences.
i doubt he has velvet. his fins would likely be clamped. when i fight parasites, i like to use good old fashioned copper sulfate and salt. its not as dangerous as most people think, i had my RCS survive the treatment, and shrimp are MUCH more sensitive to copper.

as long as he is eating, he has a pretty good shot.

#12 pLutorium

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:09 AM

Glad to hear he's getting better!! He's in my thoughts. :)




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