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Crown Rays


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#1 nikkir

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 04:35 PM

Is it common for Crowns to lose some rays intermittently? My Crown appears healthy enough. He just seems to have lost a few here and there. We thought he had fin rot, and I treated him for it, but the water turned very cloudy with the maracyn 2. We completed the 5 days but it really was hard on him.

I have always used aquarium salt, and he has always been in 76 degree water. The rays seem to be coming back, but then others are disappearing.

He makes bubble nests, eats well, plays a lot. I change his water 50% every 4 or so days, with a full water change every 10-14 days.

#2 Eratic-Fish-Finatic

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:37 AM

Is it common for Crowns to lose some rays intermittently? My Crown appears healthy enough. He just seems to have lost a few here and there. We thought he had fin rot, and I treated him for it, but the water turned very cloudy with the maracyn 2. We completed the 5 days but it really was hard on him.

I have always used aquarium salt, and he has always been in 76 degree water. The rays seem to be coming back, but then others are disappearing.

He makes bubble nests, eats well, plays a lot. I change his water 50% every 4 or so days, with a full water change every 10-14 days.

What's the PH and hardness of your water? Also how old is your Ct?

#3 nikkir

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:55 AM

The ph is high, always has been, nearly 8

I believe he will be nearly a year old. He was small when we got him, about half the size he is now, so I suspect about 4-5 months and we got him in the first week of November. I have some pics posted in the illness thread.

#4 Nelson

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 08:34 AM

High pH is generally tied to hard water, and hard water can bend crowntail rays. They're most suited to be in softer water- 6.5 pH and 0-6 dGH.

So it could be that or ammonia problems. How big is the tank? Is it filtered?

#5 nikkir

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 07:55 PM

it's a 5 gallon, not filtered. Frequent water changes, the water parameters are normal, per the drop test kit.

0 ammonia, but that's where I get the high ph reading. I used to add something to lower the ph for my older fish, but it didn't matter, the ph would climb back up anyway, so I stopped. I also read a number of articles regarding the ph. I knew it could result in bent rays, but that the chemicals used to reduce ph can be harder on the fish than the hard water...darned if you do...darned if you don't in that respect.

#6 Nelson

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 09:17 PM

Yeah, it can be a bummer. But there are ways around it. Try using Reverse Osmosis water, it's naturally neutral/a bit soft. That or age/treat your water before hand and use that during water changes.

#7 nikkir

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 09:37 PM

hmmm...my water is conditioned and aged. I never use it before it's been aged at least 24 hours...but the ph is still high. Strange.

#8 Eratic-Fish-Finatic

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 05:26 AM

Used dried Indian Almond Leaves or collect dry oak leaves and make a aquatan/black water extract for your tank. Does wonders for bettas, especially crowntails. All natural solution to hard water, does not harm the fish in anyway and also reduces your fish's stress levels. Here's both my male black Copper Cts, kept in black water setups since they were born and even now. Not a single curl or broken ray. Low PH, soft and acidic waters are what makes a Ct thrive. You should also add a small filter in there, like a 2 or 3 galling rated one keeps the current low enough for the betta to swim.

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Edited by Eratic-Fish-Finatic, 31 March 2012 - 05:28 AM.


#9 Nelson

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 07:24 PM

Aging isn't the same as treating it, I recommend what Eratic-Fish-Finatic said and to use Indian Almonds leaves or Indian Almond Leaf extract.

#10 nikkir

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 10:32 AM

All right, I'll give it a try. Can't hurt, and he's missing another ray this morning. These things seem to just disappear. I look pretty closely at him to see if there is any degradation of the rays, but they go from appearing normal to falling off.

#11 marko

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:57 PM

Used dried Indian Almond Leaves or collect dry oak leaves and make a aquatan/black water extract for your tank. Does wonders for butts, especially crowntails. All natural solution to hard water, does not harm the Sushi in anyway and also reduces your Sushi's stress levels. Here's both my male black Copper Cts, kept in black water setups since they were born and even now. Not a single curl or broken ray. Low PH, soft and acidic waters are what makes a Ct thrive. You should also add a small filter in there, like a 2 or 3 galling rated one keeps the current low enough for the butt to swim.

Posted Image

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i just change the water with 33% RODI water (its essentially pure H2O). dilutes the CO3 (kh), and Ca+Mg (gh) and my tap water kh 3 gh 5. no ray curling. if you have an RODI unit, you could try that route, so you dont have to buy IAL or collect oak leaves. but the leaves are good for spawns, so maybe get some anyway for breeder tanks (if you intend to breed).
current also helps to reduce ray curling. and butts can actually withstand decent flow rates, they just need to acclimate to them over a few days. my guy had trouble swimming through the waterfall from the azoo filter when i first got him, but within a week he was going through it no problem and even tried to build a nest there (didnt work though, lol).

dude, i LOVE your copper CTs. seriously, you breed and ship your juvis to the US.

#12 Eratic-Fish-Finatic

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 09:25 PM

i just change the water with 33% RODI water (its essentially pure H2O). dilutes the CO3 (kh), and Ca+Mg (gh) and my tap water kh 3 gh 5. no ray curling. if you have an RODI unit, you could try that route, so you dont have to buy IAL or collect oak leaves. but the leaves are good for spawns, so maybe get some anyway for breeder tanks (if you intend to breed).
current also helps to reduce ray curling. and butts can actually withstand decent flow rates, they just need to acclimate to them over a few days. my guy had trouble swimming through the waterfall from the azoo filter when i first got him, but within a week he was going through it no problem and even tried to build a nest there (didnt work though, lol).

dude, i LOVE your copper CTs. seriously, you breed and ship your juvis to the US.

Thanks man, I'm gunna try breeding my Black Copper Crossrays again later in April. I do have the Black Devil HMPK X Black Copper Crossray brood right now though. I'll see how they look once they grow up a bit.

Edited by Eratic-Fish-Finatic, 01 April 2012 - 09:28 PM.





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